E: Football is a team sport, and all teams need somebody to lead them. From what I’ve seen from rubbing elbows with you and the fellow Ringleaders, you clearly come off as a leader. 

You can see that you inspire people, you encourage people, and you seemingly do it all without asking for anything in return. Is this something you strive for, and is it something football and RFC have taught you over the years?

A: We’ll get into the philosophy of RFC, and I love this question because I can’t believe I’m going to say this. 

When I was building Ringleaders, my inspiration was hooliganism. I was watching a documentary called “Football Hooligans and Thugs Volume 1”, and I was angry at that time. I was 23 or 24, and I wanted more. More soccer every day. I wanted to be Brazilian. I wanted to wake up and go to sleep with soccer.

I looked more into Hooliganism, and you’d see them go fight, and they were into fashion labels. They were into wearing Burberry and Stone Island, so it was cool. It was like gangster rap. 

Where I got the name Ringleaders came during this documentary where they’re showing footage of police breaking through a door, and they arrested “the ringleaders”. I paused it, and I was like “What did he just say? Ringleaders? Write that name down.” It just rang so well. 

The ringleaders, they don’t even watch soccer. They’re the guys organizing crime. They’re not at the football field, and they’re not the ones fighting. If you reflect on it, if some people say I’m a leader, that’s not always true. The leader always stands behind the people. It’s the people that lead first. It’s in the book of Tao. So, there are always people that step up, it’s not always just me. It’s a balance.

E: The Ringleaders has always had a sort of mystery about it. Why?

A: Well, I mean, The Ringleaders were the people you don’t see right? So, I can’t go against my philosophy, right?  

My biggest inspiration for RFC is Subcomandante Marcos. That’s my guy. There was a movement in Mexico in the ‘90s where Nestle and all these giant companies would go buy mountains, and just kick everybody out.  

The Zapatistas were an old tribe and something we should preserve and build museums around, but here they were getting kicked out to make profits. They had no way to defend themselves because they didn’t want to leave. And so, the government was going to move in on them because they didn’t have an army.  

So, a man showed up out of nowhere wearing a ski mask and organized them to fight against them. This isn’t like 100 years ago; this is in the ‘90s. He calls himself “subcommander” because he said that the people are the commanders, and he listens to the people so that’s why he’s the subcommander. 

How could you not love that? They’ve asked him why he wears a mask and why he’s afraid to show himself. He told them ''no it’s not that, it’s not about me, because if I die on the battlefield, my brother or sister will pick up the mask and the legend continues''.

E: Dreaming means a lot to you and it seems like it plays a big role in your life. What does it mean to you and why do you encourage everybody around you to follow their dreams?

A: I think there’s a miscommunication on the global level. I think dreaming has to do with imagination. I put them both together. I think dreaming has been mixed up with desire. I guess if you could put a message out there, I think the imagination is more important because once your imagination stops, the dream stops, and I think you’re done. 

E: Now getting into RFC, a fruit of your imagination. What were some of the challenges you faced at the beginning when you were first creating the brand and the team? 

A: The first challenge I faced was... At the time, I was really into streetwear and fashion, so Ringleaders originally launched as a T-shirt brand in 2006. After the fact, the first challenge was: there was no social media, none of that. So how do you get this concept outside these four walls and into the world? 

Where we found the solution was a year later when I met Jeremy Wirth, and we redesigned the brand. He’s a genius. He gave me the snowflake and said “No matter what, no matter where you go on the planet, they will always know you’re from the North. You’re from Canada.” So that was the first solution to the problem. 

Another problem, which I want to say was the biggest in RFC history, was when we relaunched in 2007... By 2010 I was attracting better soccer players, like-minded, but just really good soccer players. But then there was a big contrast on the pitch, and that’s why we made the 3-touch rule. Because at one point they weren’t passing the ball, because they didn’t think the rest were good enough. 

And then I got lost. I wanted to keep the football players happy, so I decided to go against my own creation, and I signed up a Division team in the Saputo league Friday nights at Catalogna.

E: And that took the whole fun out of what you created?

A: It took all the fun out. One day, we had a coach, and I was sitting there persuading players to play for us from McGill and Carabins. Meanwhile, I’m letting go of the guys that I’ve been with for 3-4 years that were the fun part of RFC. And I was like “how did I get into this situation?” 

I remember one day at Catalogna, I was looking around and seeing all the people who made me quit soccer when I was 17, the ones who made me hate it. I was thinking “what am I doing here? How did I get back to square one?” I did everything not to be here, and yet my competitive ambition brought me here. It lasted about a year and a half, and then I walked away from that.

I felt like I had lost the club. It felt like an “us vs. them”. The original club members were like “Angelo’s too busy now with his soccer players”. It was Christmas time, and we were having a Frostbite Cup in January, I sat down and hand-wrote 43 letters. 43 individual letters mailed to everybody’s house telling them how much I miss them, how much I appreciate them, how much I appreciate them giving me a chance, and some memories, and that Frostbite Cup was phenomenal. It took me 5 days to write those letters. That Frostbite Cup everybody showed up and it was the rebirth of the club and I promised myself I am never doing this again.

Frostbite Cup really united our club ⁠— that first day of Frostbite Cup in 2012, we really became a club. Before that, we were a team that had a t-shirt jersey and a snowflake, but that day we became a club. 

E: The Ringleaders has come a long way and gone through many phases since its founding in 2005. Today, what does the future look like for the team and the brand?

A: My most important thing right now is to find consistency in our events. I want them to be set in stone, pre dated, and always rolling, which is a full-time job in itself, for the teams to play every week, whether it’s in a league or pick-up. 

That’s already going well, but my fear of Catalogna closing is terrifying me. And for the brand, to find consistency in delivering cool projects, collabs, collections. I want to say consistency is the most important thing right now.

E: If there is one, what is the goal of RFC?

A: Today. 100-year-old club, for sure. My personal dream, that I don’t impose on anyone, is — I really love product. I really love well-crafted product. I love fashion. I love art. I would love to see the brand bloom to a credible status like a Palace, like a Dime, like a Supreme. I would love to occupy a space in this beautiful industry. That’s my personal dream.As far as the club is concerned, I want to see the community grow with like-minded people, talent, and creatives. You’re a creative yourself. Some people think they’re not creative, but they actually are. 

If it could become a pro club one day, under the conditions of the philosophy, no compromise, perhaps with an academy for young children where we teach them to love the game the way I did, I would like to see that. But with no compromise on the philosophy. 

E: How have you found and defined the balance between the game of football and finding profit off the brand itself? RFC is really in two spaces right now. How have you defined that balance between the two? 

A: That question is relevant because I've been defining it as we speak over the last year. To be fair to the brand, the brand never had a chance to be a four-time-a-year seasonal brand. It was a sporadic brand. The brand is like a baby, and the potential hasn’t been maxed. It’s just growing right now.  

What I am remaining conscious of is not using the community that’s attached to it for the benefit of the brand. I’m setting my rules of engagement right now, and I’m setting up my boundaries between the brand itself, the community, and how it can live in harmony and in balance without one using the other or creating a toxic and greedy environment.

E: You’ve played in the snow, you’ve played at midnight, you’ve played in the dark with headlamps on and a glow-in-the-dark ball. You’re constantly coming up with these ideas to show that no matter the circumstances, soccer can be enjoyed anywhere, anytime, by anyone, no matter what. What’s your favourite event and do you have anything planned for the future? 

A:I could tell you that first of all when you’re blessed and you have children, more than one, one day you will realize how impossible it is to love someone so much, but at the same time not be able to love one more than the other. 

Every event we do at RFC is extremely unique and innovative, they all mean something different. Frostbite Cup is the ultimate baptism for any RFC player. Frostbite is unique because you feel like a year old child. Ask anybody, even someone who’s done 10 Frostbites, and they’ll tell you the same thing. It never gets dull, you cannot compare that experience. It’s freedom. 

But then the Midnight Cup… a cage in the middle of a rave, it’s insane. With the music and everything, it’s like a videogame come to life. You can’t even describe that experience. So how do you compare that? And the Dark Match was so new but so surreal. An alternative way to explain from an artistic point of view is the feeling of showing up somewhere, and your friends are there, and you’re just playing. 

What I am building now, and it’s based off of wrestling, which I love, follows the same structure that they had. You know how they have the Pay-per-views, and they have their main events, the Royal Rumble, Summerslam, Survivor Series, and Wrestlemania. That’s kind of how I look at the 4 seasons with RFC. We’ve got futsal, we play in the snow, and if we want to be like the Brazilians of North America then we’ve got to play on the sand!  

That’s the missing one. I’ve been working on this thing now called the Sunburn Cup, and it’s gonna be like a camping, outdoors situation for a weekend, and it’s all about wellness and mental health. BUT it has to be in an area where we can enjoy nature, and also play soccer on sand. That’s the missing piece of the puzzle. 

It goes back to the contrast, which is something I love. I love contrast in design, in groups of people, everywhere. For me the fact of having snowflakes on our jerseys, but playing in sand is the ultimate contrast. So there is still a fashion point of view here, there is still a creative point of view.

E: You seem to take inspiration from what is known as ''the golden era of football''. To you, was it the pinnacle of football fashion, and is this era where you draw most of your inspiration from?   

A: Yes and no. I do like the vintage stuff, but I do think it has its own timeline. You can get inspired but don’t get too literal about it. But I feel like inventions and innovation are more interesting to me. I want to know more and learn as a student of life and a student of fashion about things such as fabrics, design, and other stuff.  

I’ve made things like the mesh tote bag that doubles as a pinnie. I’m thinking about the commute. The lifestyle of an amateur soccer player who just finished work and needs to get on his bike because he’s gonna be late for kickoff so he wants to start right away. So it’s like what’s the fastest way about it? There’s a lot of chemistry between the classic streetwear fashion as far as the graphics are concerned and the philosophy.  

I want RFC to be a brand that’s for everyone. Like, everybody wearing Supreme in the last 5 years probably don’t even know that it’s a skate brand, but they can still appreciate it for what it is, and everything has to grow. For me, since soccer is life, let life be soccer. I don’t care if you like basketball, but if you think Ringleaders is dope then you can wear it. So that’s how I see it, and on the tech side, I just love tech, like I love Star Trek. I love minimalism and simplicity at the same time, so if I can make a bag that you can go to pick-up with and then play in it… that’s Star Trek to me you know.

E: It’s amazing how everything comes back to soccer. At times you’ve used the lessons you learned from soccer theory as a guide to your own life. It can be seen through a lot of your writing and story-telling. Could you explain this philosophy and how it’s shaped your character? 

A: Well, I mean for me first of all, being part of a team is what changed my life. Comradery influenced the rest of my existence. Being a part of something was special. Winning wasfun too, when everyone is in a good mood... but that’s just like the cherry on top. 

I think passing the ball is something that I still do to this day in every one of my human activities, whether it’s work or anything. I think you have to include people otherwise you can’t move forward, and if you hog the ball, you might beat a player or two, but you can’t beat a whole team. And I think in an older age now, I kind of understand a quote a bit more from Johan Cruyff which is “Playing football is very simple, but playing simple football is the hardest thing there is.”, cause when you’re younger you’re too eager and you miss it and you wanna destroy everything, but today you can think “Yeah a little bit of simplicity could make things a lot better.” 

E: What is incredible is that if we use the passing analogy yougave as an example, it is easily translated. It’s not even something that you need soccer knowledge to understand and apply to your own life. 

I want to get into one of my favourite parts of this interview. Given my own love for everything soccer, I'm interested in learning more about your unique collection of memorabilia. Each piece you have seems to have a story connected to it. What's the importance of these stories and what are some of your favourites within your collection and why? 

A: For me it’s based on the travel. When I created the Journeyman, I created this philosophy around the travel and one’s story because I was paying homage to soccer in the ‘70s, ‘80s and ‘90s of North America where players seemed to play for 1 different teams in 19 years.  

I also travelled a lot by being in streetwear, so I made a lot of friends in places like New York and throughout Europe, and there was always soccer and a purpose at the end of the day. I’d connect with the people I meet because I’d find out they love the sport, so there was even an essence of the Journeyman in my own travels. 

Another way I can answer this question is through my popup shop from the summer. Originally, I was going to just liquidate some old Ringleaders product, but as I looked through all my soccer stuff, I would pull things out and think “Oh shit, I remember this jersey! Marc gave me that when he came back from Barcelona!” Up until this day I still have friends who come back with gifts for me or DM me saying they thought of me.  

That’s it, it’s the fact that my friends and family think of me when they travel. Though I’ve got to be honest, sometimes I bully them like “Oh you’re going to Turkey? I want the cheapest, ugliest bootleg you can find of Galatasaray!” Like Nathaniel brought one back for me when he went to Turkey years ago. So, all these things I still have, and I guess to answer your question, yeah every piece has a story, and it’s a memory of a friend or from travelling.

E: So, everything you collect isn’t because they’re nice, cool, or anything like that. It’s because they have meaning to you. You can tie your collection to more than just a jersey or a pair of boots. 

A: Yeah, because at the end of the day, product is just product, and there’s overconsumption, but I guess just for the karma of things, it makes me feel better to say this is special. Everything has a story, and every person has a story.

E: I’m sure you have several, but what are some of your favourite pieces from your collection of memorabilia? 

A: My number one would probably be my first bootleg Olympiacos jersey that an aunt of mine brought me that I still have to this day.

E: One of the pieces that kind of got this all started you could say?

A: Yeah, you know, it’s a bootleg, but I’m going to frame it soon. That was special because you know when someone gets knighted, that’s whatit
felt like. 

And I think, very close to that one, most probably over that one actually is... Ringleaders was sponsored by Hummel in 2010, and the CEO of North America at that time was a friend of mine and they wanted to send me to Afghanistan for a tournament. I was too scared to go, but in the meantime, they brought me back a jersey of the Women’s Afghanistan team that was autographed by the whole team.

E: I remember seeing that! I don’t know if I had asked you, but I remember seeing it at your shop and thinking “This is one of the craziest things I’ve ever seen! How did he get this?” I was blown away when I saw that jersey.

A: It was through Hummel, and they gifted it to me, and those girls were imprisoned right after. There was a whole story. So, I think that’s number 2. 

And number 3, you might be stunned, but the first time I went to travel to Berlin for trade shows, I fell in this beautiful store that doesn’t exist anymore, it was called Goal. It was a little boutique. It wasn’t bootlegs. I don’t want to disrespect it by saying that, but it just had these jerseys that were made by an artist, and I bought a Tibet jersey. That opened up my mind completely because I’m very into Buddhism and that philosophy of life, so for me, that piece was all my life reading The Art of War, Confucianism, and Taoism, and it was embodied in one very special piece.

E: That’s amazing. The coming together of those two worlds is something you probably won’t ever really find anywhere else.

A: Yeah, seeing that Unity was just something else.

E: Now we're at my all-time favourite part because I’m crazy about it. Like me, you also love soccer jerseys, but your focus is a lot more specific than mine. From what I’ve gathered through research and what we’ve been talking about, your absolute favourites are jerseys from the ‘80s and ‘90s, but you also like a lot of obscure jerseys, especially from North American teams which I find extremely interesting. So what is it you love about jerseys and why is it that your focus is on the older jerseys and obscure jerseys when most collectors nowadays gravitate towards newer and more modern jerseys?

A: First and foremost, it’s the logo, the crest, the application, the way it’s applied on a jersey, and how it’s showcased. 

What I loved when I was building Ringleaders in 2005, my early
inspiration was NASL, [Montreal] Manic, and all the old teams from the ‘70s and ‘80s. I found that contrary to what MLS and North America are trying to do. I do like the Washington Diplomats and the New York Cosmos, it’s America… It’s Hollywood, man! I was inspired by those types of jerseys. Then you know there’s the collars and the necklines. But I think in general it’s the crest. For example, there’s a team in CONCACAF, I think they’re from Bermuda called Robin Hood FC, straight up. So, when I see that, the name, the crest which is a guy standing with a bow & arrow, I go “Wow, this is so sick I want it.”

E: Is it just because they’re providing something different ratherthan the same templates or generic designs you’ll see on the modern kits?

A: Exactly! It’s always the crest first, then the collars, and I like looking into the history to see how their jerseys evolved throughout the years.

E: It’s interesting because we both look at jerseys through very different lenses. I just straight up consume them. I want them all because I love the look of jerseys and how they can show my love for the sport. But now, I feel like this conversation will change how I see jerseys because there’s so much more behind a jersey. 

A: Yeah, because football is life, football is romance, football is politics, football is gangs.

E: You also have an appreciation for bootleg jerseys and fan-style jerseys that were prominent throughout the ‘90s. Whereas collectors stray away from the “inauthentic”,  you seem to embrace it. Does it have to do with where it all started for you and the stories behind these jerseys? 

A: Exactly. It’s the humbleness of all that, and it’s also because I love production. I appreciate quality products, but I also appreciate “non-quality” products. I appreciate the fact that somebody sat down and tried to replicate something with what they had.

So instead of putting an actual badge, they put a felt badge because that’s what they could afford. Or sometimes bootleggers come up with something cool... Like they’ll put a quote from the anthem on the jerseys, and you’re just like "Shit that’s never been done!". So there’s a science behind the bootleg that I’ll always appreciate.

E: It’s something different that strays away from the mass production of the jerseys we see, because at the end of the day it’s all for the love of soccer.

A: Exactly. And I do appreciate that not everybody can afford a $15 jersey. So for me to see a kid that loves soccer so much and does not give a shit if it's bootleg or not cause they’re so stoked to get one for Christmas because their parents worked so hard and have no money but they did what they could.

E: One last thing to cover all of this jersey talk. I want to know what your 3 favourite jerseys are. They don’t have to be the ones you own, just maybe not the Women’s Afghanistan one because I know that one means a lot, and the signed Kostas Mitroglou jersey that you have because I already know about that one.

A: Haha, that’s right! My top jersey is the Brazil 1970 jersey. It was the revolution of the jersey... The Brazilians, I know we like them for their flair and their music, but they’re soccer scientists.  

They were the first to figure out a lot of shit. They were the first to have team psychologists in the ‘50s. They would have therapy sessions with players and ask them what their fears were, and they’d make them draw it out like a kid.  

For the 1970 World Cup, they were in Mexico 1-2 months before anybody else arrived because they understood that they had to get used to their water, their vegetables, and their fruits. In 1970, they were the first to take the collar off of their jersey because when you sweat it was weighing on their back. That’s why that jersey is a V-neck. You see how simple of a detail that is? 

E: Do you have any of your own favourites aside from the Mitroglou and aside from the Afghanistan one? 

A: I love that ‘98 Brazil jersey! The mock neck... Come on... It’s iconic. And then I want to say, not in particular, a certain brand or whatever, but the concept of the Italian jersey.   

The Azzurri! That blue! It gives me goosebumps because they’re pretty and their hair is amazing. When the Azzurri shows up, it’s on. There’s a saying in Greek to say it’s a heavy jersey, it means it’s very special. Like Olympiacos, it’s a heavy jersey. You’ve gotta have balls to play Olympiacos. But it’s the Azzurri... It’s that blue, it’s so beautiful.

E: Moving away from jerseys a bit, you have three clubs that are dear to your heart. You have Olympiacos, RFC, and not CF Montreal but Montreal Impact. Which one of these three clubs are you the biggest fan of?  

A: Olympiacos. I can’t compare Olympiacos with RFC, but I can tell you that there would be no RFC without Olympiacos. The reason is that [Olympiacos] was my school. 

I have an uncle that passed away and he was buried with an Olympiacos scarf, and I remember thinking “that’s going to be me”. But I will take an RFC scarf with me too. To anybody that should answer that question in life, forget about what you think your favourite team is, how about you tell me if there is a scarf that you could be buried with, which one would it be? 

E: The last question and what I really wanted to end off with is, what does Football Saved My Life mean to you? 

A: It’s the yin and yang. There’s a quote in a record from an electric music group, Enigma, from the ‘90s, and they wrote “If you believe in God then you have to believe in the devil.” It’s my ups and my downs. It’s my whole story… I fell outof love, I fell back in love, I created The Ringleaders but then got into the competitiveness and wanted to get out and quit, but then somehow writing those letters saved my life again. It just saves my life all the time.